Kristen A. , Erica B., Ola B., Julia J., Susan L., Abigail M., Justine P., Oscar W., Elizabeth W. - and Pavlina T.
Please follow the letter-writing process described above in the first comment under Guide for Cross-Cultural Collaboration-Spring 2006: “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.” When you are ready to submit your letters, click on the comments link below. A new window will open. Read comments already published, and add yours.
14 comments:
Hello Group,
My name is Oskar and I’m studding computer sciences at Chalmers. On my spare time I teach martial arts and work as a pyrotechnician.
Now to the subject after reading the poem “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” I’m left whit a feeling of every day boredom, like I’m stuck in the daily round of nothingness. The opening part of the poem sets the feling whit the lines:
LET us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;
Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
The muttering retreats
Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question …
Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”
Let us go and make our visit.
Terms like “half-deserted streets”, “muttering retreats” and “sawdust restaurants” don’t make you think of love so to speak.
But then the poem change and starts obsessing about what people thinks about him “To wonder, ‘Do I dare?’ and, ‘Do I dare?’” and if he dares do something “[They will say: ‘How his hair is growing thin!’]” without specifying what that thing would be.
Then he start making up a backup plan for what to say if the thing doesn’t workout “Should say: ‘That is not what I meant at all. That is not it, at all.’”
In the light the title this sounds like a man tying to work up the courage to approach the one he loves.
Regards
Oskar
Dear Group Members,
By way if introduction, I'm Susan Larson and am just beginning graduate work with the Victorian Poetry class at Clemson. Incidentally, my husband is of Swedish ancestry, and we always eat traditional Swedish foods at Christmas.
In looking at "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock," I thought about its structure as dramatic monologue. Much of the action of the poem has to do with the tedious monotony of the social scene, which seems dominated by superficial conversation and where people are judged by the refinement of their clothing or their ability to amuse. This exterior action is contrasted with the conflict in the speaker of some urgent question. The contrast between this exterior action and the interior provides the tension, or the dramatic action, of the poem, I thought.
I was struck by the sense of time in this contrast. Time in the exterior action seems endless. The evening is like an etherized patient. The fog lingers, lets fall, curls and sleeps. The speaker repeatedly tells us "there will be time." There is reference to mornings, evenings, afternoons. But about two thirds of the way through the poem (with the stanza that begins, "Stretched on the floor..."), the speaker uses the word moment. He asks if he has strength to "force the moment to a crisis." He then says he has "seen the moment of my greatness flicker." It's almost like there is a sudden compression of time from endless afternoons to a single moment.
In that moment he fails to act, to ask the question. It seems to me that this is the turning point of the dramatic action. The verb tense changes. Instead of "there will be time," we have "and would it have been worth it." Then the speaker declares, "No! I am not Prince Hamlet...." If turning points and climaxes can be separate, then this seems the climax. The speaker has made a decision. He will not ask the question. He retreats to the tedious superficial concerns.
Sketching this out helped me get a sense of the action of the poem, but there is so, so much more! What do you all think?
Yours,
Susan
Hello Group,
My name is Abbie Myers. I am third year Communications major, History minor at Clemson University. I am currently enrolled in an American Literature class and have minimal experience with analyzing poetry in great detail.
Upon my first reading of T.S. Eliot’s “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” I was left with a feeling of despair and loneliness. The repeated phrase “there will be time” seems as though the subject is moving through life with expectations and aspirations as what is still to come. However as life passes by without radical change or intentional actions these dreams have utmost potential to be lost. “Do I dare” a second repetitive phrase educes the belief that the protagonist knows changes are necessary to reach this desired life but the subject seems hesitant, fearful to ratify his lifestyle.
Eliot’s intense imagery in the first stanza of the dark foggy streets where lamplights flicker dimly gives one the sense of darkness and hopelessness in the subject’s life.
“Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question…”
The winding streets in the darkness allow for one to either absentmindedly follow upon the known proper course or one can make a conscience decision to turn left or right to follow a path that although at times could be menacing and even unknown has potential to epitomize the term correct.
Overall this poem simply makes me think that there are two ways to live life, the first being to coast along never questioning if changes could be made or if the slightest alteration could make a significant difference; and the second is to live life aggressively even though the occasional failure is inevitable.
Best regards,
Abbie
Dear Group Members,
My name is Pavlina and I am studying for a Master of Science in Computer Science and Engineering at Chalmers University of Technology in Sweden. I bet you wonder why I am so late with submitting my first letter, well I start taking the course yesterday afternoon . I felt like I needed a break from all the programming classes and what could be more suitable than reading poetry.
My first impression after reading the poem “The Love Song of J. Alfred. Prufrock” is that is about a man searching for love although after many unsuccessful attempts in his life, his confidence just fades away.
I think that he is unhappy with the way he looks having
To Prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;
And also fearful of what others will have to say about him
[They will say: “How his hair is growing thin!”]
…
[They will say: “But how his arms and legs are thin!”]
This man is insecure and frightened of peoples' reactions to his balding head and slim, aging body.
It seems like he has difficulty communicating with people repeating the lines
visions and revisions
decisions and revisions
I see this as even more signs of his lack of confidence.
I have known the arms already, known them all, are lines that illustrate both his failure with women as well as his fear of women.
Best regards, Pavlina
Hello everyone!
It has been very interesting to read other views of the poem because it seems like most of us concentrated on different parts in the poem and of course interpreted things differently. The only thing that everyone agrees to is that he is an old and very insecure person.
As I read your comments and reread the poem I could relate to your impressions. I also feel that for each time I read the poem, new questions pops up as well as new conclusions and new ways of seeing things.
Now let me respond to Erica’s question about the passage of time in the poem. I believe that he is convincing him self that he has time while trying to get enough courage to fulfill his dream, his fantasy.
I totally agree with Ola that in the line “Do I Dare/Disturb the universe?” he express his doubts about himself and his chance to a better life.
Abbies impression of the poem that there a two ways of living your life made me think for a while and I can second that idea to some point. There are several ways of living your life. I don’t think that there is only black and white. Gray is something that belongs to this territory as well as many shades of the gray.
Have a great weekend!
Hi group,
For me the key words insecurity and tragic hits the spot. Tragic because of how I feel after reading it and I don’t think insecurity needs more explaining
So time seams to be one of the more interesting topics we can find missed that aspect in the first iteration. On one side we have what seams to be the most popular view in the group, that he is old and on the other hand Julias new theory on a younger man which seams a little interesting. My fist impression of the poem was that it was a man that was unsure of him self, not daring to approach his love for fear of rejection and thou it still happens to older persons I would say that that’s more of a teenagers mind set then a man whit grey temples. But I can’t drop the feeling that he is older than that.
Hi Pavlina welcome to the grope, how did you come to the conclusion that his insecurity is based on many failing attempts was it solely based on the feeling of him being old and thus having gone through any failing attempts or is it some ting more?
Regards,
Oskar
Ps. Speaking of time in five minits its my 26 birthday :)
Hey, everyone!
When I was looking at what everyone else wrote, different lines that I passed by before struck me. The line Ola and Pavlina quoted “Do I Dare / Disturb the universe?” combined with the Hamlet reference Susan pointed out shows that he was quite fearful. Hamlet wanted revenge against his uncle, but he never planned for all the other deaths that resulted from his decision. Both statements imply that any action he might chose to take would have negative repercussions. Although he might want to act, that action would lead to more than just the desired result. The speaker clearly is unwilling to risk the negative consequences to achieve what he desires. I agree with Susan that the poem is functioning like a dramatic monologue. The speaker has been debating with himself and considering the consequences of his actions only to reason his way out of acting. He is left feeling uncourageous, yet safe. Additionally, rejecting the idea of himself as Hamlet shows that he was rejecting any idea of himself as a potential hero, even a tragic one. He’ll only ever amount to the “attendant lord”. What Julia said about the speaker being in seedy place focused my attention on the setting. The depression of the setting appears to destroy his belief in himself. While spending his time in an environment like this one, it is not surprising that he has such low expectations for himself. The best thing that he has to focus is the movement of the fog around him. It appears quite possible that he fears to act because it would bring the woman he loves into this setting. Only the fact that he has to go down the stairs makes me believe that she might be outside of the location.
- Justine
Hello everyone,
Lots of interesting perspectives in the entries since I last read. I agree with Pavlina that Prufrock lacks confidence and with Ola that he lacks courage to change his situation. Pavlina also noted that he convinces himself that he has time while trying to get the courage to act. This contributes to that sense in the first half of the poem of endless time. It's like his continual procrastination contributes to time stretching out. The everyday boredom that Oskar mentioned early on is also a function of the procrastination, the "hundred indecisions." Erika, I'm inclined to say that when he makes the decision NOT to act that time passes him by.
I agree with Justine regarding the Hamlet reference. He does reject himself as a hero. Interesting allusion since Hamlet was pretty indecisive for quite a while too. Speaking of allusions, I was thinking about the John the Baptist reference (lines 81-83) As I understand it, John the Baptist was beheaded because he had offended Herod's supposed wife by drawing attention to the marriage's illegitimacy. He was not shy about pointing out sin. Prufrock on the other hand declares he's no prophet even though he has seen his head on a platter. He seems to be saying that even though others have attacked him (sacrificed him?) it is for no noble reason, "here's no great matter." It's the non hero stuff again. He seems to be saying that he struggles tremendously, but that the matters he struggles over are really nothing. And this reminds me of Justine's comments about the mermaids. They don't sing to him because he hasn't done anything of merit. It makes me wonder if his concerns are really that trivial or if they are important but, as you all have noted, he lacks the confidence and courage to act. Lots to think about
Susan
Hi everyone,
I totally missed the allusion that Susan mentioned regarding John the Baptist, and I needed to go back and read to discover which part of the poem she was actually referring to. I think I was more focused on the bald references that Erica mentioned. This clarification really does make the speaker’s fears seem less paranoid and irrational. Fearing decapitation would seem out of place in the speaker’s setting.
I also agree with Julia that the presence of the woman he supposedly loves seems to be absent. Outside of the title, there is little reason to believe that the speaker is addressing the woman he loves. However, I think he might consider himself too far inferior to tell her about his love. It seems like he wants to be worthy of someone, and yet he continues to fail.
For my representation of “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock,” I chose Study related to “The First Step” by Constantin Brancusi.
http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?criteria=O%3AAD%3AE%3A738&page_number=1&template_id=1&sort_order=1
What drew me to this drawing first was the coloring. The shades of yellow reminded me of the “yellow smoke” and “yellow fog” that surrounds the speaker of the poem. Also I likes that it was of one person who is trying to accomplish something for the first time. The title of the painting further implies that the subject of the painting is being closely assessed to decide how people are capable of walking. This careful analysis of potential appears to be going on in the speaker’s head. While the speaker of the poem might be deciding that he lacks the ability to act, it remains similar because the artist knows that the first step is possible yet still feels the need to discover how it is possible. It is as though the artist believes it should be unattainable. Additionally, I liked that although we only see the child in the drawing, the child is clearly holding on to someone else’s hand. This is similar to our perspective in the poem. We only hear what the speaker says when someone else must be around because of “Let us go then, you and I”. The focus in both pieces remains on the individual who will either act or fail to.
If any of you are having trouble finding representations, you can browse the collections of the Museum of Modern Art at www.moma.org or the Metropolitan Museum of Art at www.metmuseum.org
-Justine
Hello again,
I found a representation of the theme of malaise in Prufrock in a place that surprised me. It is actually in one of our (814's)assigned readings, The Prelude by Wordsworth. (It can be found at www.bartleby.com/145/ww287.html) See particularly lines 221 - 269 of Book First. Wordsworth says "Thus my days are past / in contradiction; with no skill to part / Vague longing, haply bred by want of power..." and later, "Much wanting [lacking], so much wanting, in myself...." Sounds a bit like Prufrock's "Should I...have the strength to force the moment to its crisis?" and "Do I dare?"
In reading your comments, I found three that speak to the age issue. Oskar noted that Prufrock's fear to approach the woman he's interesed in is characteristic of a young person, even a teenager. Julia noted that he seems self-obsessed and that this is a sign of immaturity, and Erica asked if time has passed him by. See what you think of this: Prufrock is an older man, but a big part of his problem IS that he has not really matured. He plays it safe, refuses to test himself or to take responsibility for living with action. As a result he finds, at the end of the poem, that indeed time has passed him by. He has "lingered in the chambers of the sea." That is, he has stayed in the seemingly safe dreamlike (etherized) state, but when the substantial comes (the human voices), he is awakened to a reality he can't sustain and he drowns. (This last observation is from my notes and I don't recall if it's original or something I wrote down during discussion of the poem. If I've borrowed someone else's idea, forgive me!)
It's been fun reading your comments. I hope you all enjoy the rest of your courses. And a belated happy birthday, Oskar!
Susan L
Hi groupe
I have almost been convinced by Julia and Ola that the poem is about a young mans feelings (the writer) rather than an old man (the character in the poem). It only one thing I cant come to terms whit in this angle, why characterise it like an old man why not use a character in his on age? To lend credibility, touch another audience, or is it just that his own experience influence the feeling of the poem whit out the poets knowledge?
I tried to find a picture that mirrored what I felt when I red the poem sadness. This was the closes a came http://www.devoutdolls.com/main/voodoodepressgrey.jpg . It’s a grey voodood doll that represent depression and like I said cant let go of that feeling when reading the poem even now after rereading it in the light of all the posts.
Justine I liked your picture it capture some of the feelings of the poem nicely and even something as literal as the yellow smoke. Thou I’m not completely buying the first steep angle, need to reflect some more on that one.
Regards Oskar
Hello everyone!
I see that some of you second the idea that the poem is about a younger man, I still strongly believe that The Love Song is the lifetime of laments that one old-aged man remembers, which consist of his past failures. He then puts them into the context of his now-meaningless life to try to comprehend the significance and compensate for his loneliness.
Eliot doesn't give any sense of hope for him in the poem - he remains a doomed character until the very end.
To find something that represents this poem from A-Z was very hard although when I searched after “I’m so pathetic” I found this sentence “Life seems so pathetic I wish I could leave it all behind” in a Iron Maiden song by name "2 AM" and I felt that it is something that this man in the poem can relate to. He doesn’t have the courage to act nor to face the facts and simply move on with his life and be content with everything that comes along as time passes by.
Best regards, Pavlina
Hello everyone!
I see that some of you second the idea that the poem is about a younger man, I still strongly believe that The Love Song is the lifetime of laments that one old-aged man remembers, which consist of his past failures. He then puts them into the context of his now-meaningless life to try to comprehend the significance and compensate for his loneliness.
Eliot doesn't give any sense of hope for him in the poem - he remains a doomed character until the very end.
To find something that represents this poem from A-Z was very hard although when I searched after “I’m so pathetic” I found this sentence “Life seems so pathetic I wish I could leave it all behind” in a Iron Maiden song by name 2 AM and I felt that it is something that this man in the poem can relate to. He doesn’t have the courage to act nor to face the facts and simply move on with his life and be content with everything that comes along as time passes by.
Best regards, Pavlina
Hello Group,
I hope you are all doing well. I find it interesting to see how our opinion regarding the protagonist has shifted. In the first letters nearly everyone said something in the vicinity of feeling pity for the speaker, and really picking up on his grey attitude toward life. However it seems as we have reread the work people have begun to address this feeling of sympathy as almost pathetic, as though he is only focused on himself and his own misfortunes. I also think that what Julia has to say is rather interesting. She brings up the issue that he might only care about himself and in a way wallows in his own sorrows. I also enjoyed Justine’s link to Shakespeare and Hamlet. I have found it so beneficial to have people cite these allusions I would have otherwise missed.
The piece that really reminded me of “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” was a song by Zero 7, “In the Waiting Line”. The song is very smooth and slow, almost sad the tune reminds me of the flow of the poem.
“Wait in line
'Till your time
Ticking clock”
Imediatley there is a reference to time passing by and then it goes on to say…
“Motionless wheel
Nothing is real
Wasting my time
In the waiting line”
To me this coincides perfectly with what Eliots concept of this sedentary life for his protagonist. The lyrics describe potentially what the protagonist is trying to say by describing this point in life like a spinning wheel that is not moving anywhere. Overall I think that this songs melody and lyrics artistically express “The Love Poem of J Alfred Prufrock ”. The lyrics can be found at http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/gardenstate/inthewaitingline.htm It has been a great experience having the opportunity to share ideas with everyone. Have a good semester.
Sincerely,
Abbie M.
American Lit. Clemson University
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